How did you get into documentary filmmaking?
In graduate school, I became obsessed with the political documentaries being made in the 60’s in Latin America – specifically by Fernando Solanas and Octavio Getino. There were filmmakers all over the world building radical film movements as part of a larger revolution. I focused on that for my MA thesis – I wrote about the role of documentary in social change, and that’s when I knew I wanted to work in docs — but it didn’t go in a straight line. Once I left graduate school, I got a job as a union organizer – I did that for about four years, but after a lot of heartache with the labor movement, I knew it was time to learn a different tool for activism – filmmaking. So I taught myself to edit – I interned at a small media collective in Denver, and just started cutting things. Pretty soon I moved to LA and started getting doc editing jobs. That’s where I really honed my storytelling skills – in the edit bays.
Speaking to your film, once you had the idea, how did you get it off the ground?
Jillian (my co-director) and I had talked about it for a year or so on many long walks and phone calls – building the idea in our heads, and one day we just said, let’s buy some flights and start filming. We finally said – let’s stop talking about it and do it – what do we have to lose? We promised that we would keep filming even if we weren’t sure it was going to be a film. We just needed some forward momentum. Once we shot the first scenes in Arizona, we knew we had something special. And we kept going from there. We both had full time jobs at the time, so it was a lot of nights and weekends – editing late into the night, crowdfunding, etc.
What was the most rewarding moment of making that film?
At one of our first screenings, a woman in her 60’s came up to us and said “Your generation is giving my generation the validation we’ve always needed.” We always wanted to make this film to speak to other women who had been through this, to show them they aren’t alone, and that these conversations are extremely important to put out in the open. It was incredibly rewarding to feel like we tapped into something much deeper that not a lot of women were talking about openly in the context of sexual assault. There is nothing more rewarding than knowing your film is sparking necessary conversations.
My job is to take people on an emotional journey and I think the uncomfortable silences or the quieter moments let people think for themselves.
Do you define a style as an editor? Like certain directors or photographers have a very specific aesthetic. Is that something an editor can or should have?
I do think I have a style. I think its difficult because a lot of us freelancers have to work in different capacities to pay the bills (whether its commercial, branded content, tv, or docs). But even on the first doc I cut, I realized I really leaned toward sparseness – I really liked having a LOT of breathing room. I love the quiet moments, and I love letting people digest things. Not every project can have this aspect, but I always push for it where I can. My job is to take people on an emotional journey and I think the uncomfortable silences or the quieter moments let people think for themselves rather than spoon feeding them how to feel with a cheesy music cue or wall to wall talking.
Do you have a routine to get into a creative mindset? Is there a place you go to get into a creative head space?
I don’t necessarily have a routine, but I ALWAYS cut my hardest scenes in the morning. I know that my brain is very fresh from about 7am to Noon, so I leave the easier things for later in the day. When I’m not feeling creatively motivated, I go outside and take a walk, and usually I can solve the creative problem I’m having. Especially when I ‘m working with directors as an editor, I like to have a lot of conversations about the film – this always helps me generate more ideas as well. I’m extremely collaborative. As a child, I do believe I was creative, but unfortunately we live in a fucked up school system that tells kids they have like four choices for their careers – so if I wasn’t good at drawing or painting, I wasn’t “creative.” Which we know is not true. I loved logic and puzzles – breaking things apart and putting them back together, and I was an avid reader. All of those things are very core to doc filmmaking. I look at every documentary as a big puzzle to be solved.
Have you had your doubts about the freelance lifestyle?
YES. It’s often very challenging, but the truth is that as a freelancer you learn a lot very quickly as compared to being full-time somewhere. You learn to adapt to new environments, new challenges, new people – and it helps you deal with difficult projects (and people). The hardest part about freelance (especially in the beginning) is the constant anxiety about the next gig – when will it be? Who will it be with? What is the content? Because even if you have “downtime” in between, it’s never really true free time because you’re ALWAYS hustling. Always keeping up contacts, reaching out to people, taking meetings, etc. You really have to stay on your toes. But again, a really amazing things is how after a few years of this, it really pays off if people like working with you. All of the freelance jobs I worked over the years – those producers/directors move to different places and projects, and they pull you along with them. 90% of this job is being likeable – do people want to spend hours and hours with you in a small dark room? And you’re talented too?! If the answer is yes, you will be fine 🙂
What is your biggest creative obstacle?
TIME
Do you embrace the idea that the final project will differ from the way you originally envisioned it, or do you restructure along the way and create certain guidelines to find your way back to the initial framework?
This is a great question. It’s SUPER important in documentary to not be married to how you think it’s “supposed to be” or how you think it will be. You really have to let the footage tell you what it is as you go. Because documentary doesn’t have a script, you are truly writing the film as you go in the edit. Be open to that – and know that it WILL differ from your original idea, but 99.9% of the time, that’s a very good thing and you shouldn’t try to make it something it’s not. That’s a recipe for disaster. I always tell directors that giving yourself the time to throw all of the pieces in the air and start over is a wonderful thing. It’s not a failure – it’s just the creative process.
Greatest piece of advice anyone has given you?
“Recognizing that people’s reactions don’t belong to you is the only sane way to create… And what if people absolutely hate what you’ve created? What if people attack you with savage vitriol, and insult your intelligence, and malign your motives, and drag your good name through the mud? Just smile sweetly and suggest – as politely as you possibly can – that they go make their own fucking art. Then stubbornly continue making yours.” (From Elizabeth Gilbert’s book, Big Magic)
What advice would you give your 25 yr old self today?
I actually think my 25 year old self made the right call at the right time. I think if I knew then how hard this industry would actually be, I might have never taken the leap! So I commend my 25 year old self and my awesome naivete. You kind of need that to take major leaps of faith.
How does living in LA impact or influence your career and well being? Is it important to be there?
This is something I battle with daily. Pros to living in LA — it’s incredibly inspiring to be around people you admire and where so much creativity is happening in the film industry. There are also a ton of jobs, and generally LA pays better for those jobs than any other city. BUT it can also really impact your mental health because of these very same reasons. There is a lot of competition, a lot of hustling, and it feels like you never shut off. Everything in the city feels as though its organized around this industry – you just can’t escape it and it’s easy to burn out.
Do you have a mantra you live by?
“At the end of the day, we can endure much more than we think we can.” ― Frida Kahlo
What is the last experience or piece of art that inspired you?
Top of my list right now – Best documentary I’ve seen in a long time is “The Other Side of Everything” by Mila Turajlic. Best book I’ve read lately – Walk Through Walls by Marina Abramovich (the performance artist). These two pieces inspire me deeply in my own art, as well help guide me as I look to brilliant women and the way they express themselves.
Do you have any interest in going to Mars?
Absolutely NOT. It terrifies me. Everything about space scares me.