I’d love to hear about your childhood and how it may have contributed to your interest in the arts or film.
I feel like when it comes to art, everyone is influenced by their childhood in some way. I think my own experience just allowed me to just move with this idea that anything is possible. My grandpa was the first freelancer that I ever met. He was a writer, and so he would be home all day just at his computer typing away. And going from seeing him doing that, and then my dad, who was a principal at the time, my mom was working full-time in corporate, seeing all those different options, I’m like, “I could do any of these things.” And so I tried that in my life. I went to school for journalism, and then I switched to PR, and then I switched to graphic design. That was me figuring out that I wanna be an artist. I was like, “Am I a writer? Am I a business person? Am I doing PR? Am I an artist?” I did my first short film my senior year. I went all out, and it was really, really fun. And I was like, “Okay, this seems like the right space for me, the right medium for me to express who I am, ” I like visuals, I like writing. I feel like film would be the way for me to use all of that. A lot of my writing influence comes from my grandparents, really, ’cause when I was younger, they would have these poetry events in their house, literally, in their basement. They set up these chairs in the basement and they would be at a microphone at the back of the basement, and everyone’s facing them. It looked like a little bar/cafe down there because the way they set it up. There was a piano in the corner, so sometimes, people would be playing the piano. And they would have these live poetry events, and I would be at the door collecting money from people to get in, as a six-year-old. [chuckle] So that was how I grew up. And I would be sitting there listening to the cadence, listening to how my grandpa performed, and how my grandma sang and how she performed. And seeing what struck with people, the poetry, the irony, some of the things they would say, just learning about what it means to think like a poet. So I take that a lot with me in my creative work when I’m thinking visually and when I’m thinking even about treatments and writing and everything like that.
How did you get started in the business? Can you sort of describe those stepping stones that got you to where you are now?
I was exploring and seeing what I could do and what was possible. I mean, I’m the type of person that’s very much like I will try anything. I will try to do everything. I tried skiing with my boyfriend and turns out I’m terrible at it. I will try everything though, and that’s kind of how I went about my entire career. In the very beginning I bought a camera. That was the first thing I did. I bought a Canon 5D, which I still use to this day, and I had no idea how to use it, and I was just taking photos of my friends and shooting a lot of them in their clothes and them in their fashion. So that’s kind of where it really started, with me behind the camera. And then I was working… Simultaneously, I was working at this co-working space. I figured working at a co-working space would be a good way for me to meet people. I didn’t know anyone in New York professionally. All I had was my school network from Howard, which is a great network, but they were all my peers and we were all still growing, so I didn’t really know anyone who was already in filmmaking that could bring me in and let me in any doors, so I was like, “Maybe if I work somewhere where there’s a lot of people working I can meet some people.” [chuckle] And that’s what I did. mid-way through working there, I met these guys who were building this platform that could sell luxury African designers clothing in the United States, so they were making this technology, and they were building this brand, and it was really cool, and they were the only Black people in that entire space, and I was just curious about what they were doing. I decided one day to just talk to them and see what they were doing, why they were there so late all the time. They knew that I was really young and kind of hungry, but I had a camera, and that was valuable. So they hired me. They would hire models and I would be running around Chinatown taking photos of them. It was very scrappy, and then the company started to grow a little bit more, and as they grew, I grew. My skills got better. I had to get better, because there were way more eyes on them, so I started to teach myself how to do more things. I started to really get into YouTube and figuring out how to use my camera, like really finesse my camera, use it to the best of my ability. I’ve always been on that journey to kinda find who I am visually, and so that was the next step for me. The company closed down in 2017, and I was just freelancing at the time. I was just exploring, not making a lot of money. I was Airbnb-ing my room, which sucked. That was the worst, but that was helping me stay afloat while I was figuring out what my next move was, and then I applied to be a part-time photographer at Pyer Moss. I was doing everything. I was doing everything from e-comm photos, to editing those photos, to designing packaging, to doing pitch decks, to creating films. It was a lot of everything, and I think because Pyer Moss had such a big platform, people really saw all of the work that I was doing. I was doing everything there and I feel like that work ethic kind of helped me in a way, I definitely wouldn’t recommend it for anyone’s mental health, but it definitely… It gave me this kind of hustle, I think, I guess I must have already had it ’cause I was doing it, but it gave me a hustle and it made me see how fast-paced all of this actually is. So then I was doing a lot of film work at Pyer Moss with the third experiment campaign we did. We literally went around the country, and we were filming people who were making great change in their communities, like Bilqis Abdul-Qaadir, that’s the first person we shot, she is a Muslim woman who plays for internat… She was playing international basketball, and they had a rule where you can’t wear anything on your head while you play, but she petitioned and she got all these celebrities to sign with her, and then eventually, they changed that rule. She kind of opened a lane for a lot of people, so it was people like that we were filming at Pyer Moss. My heart lies in people and stories, those real stories. I’m a very empathetic person to my detriment most times, and I kinda wanna share that perspective with people, sharing my view on the world with others, which would be this empathetic view, which is like, this person that you might think is a bad person is actually just a hurt person, a struggling person, an uninformed person, just getting past the judgment and seeing who people really are, and also seeing people do incredible things, you know that they maybe weren’t even expecting to do, like Bilqis, I’m sure she wasn’t fighting for literally everyone, she was like, “I wanna wear my Hijab while I play, I have it tucked in, it’s wrapped around, I’m not hurting anyone. Like why can’t I wear it?” And she’s fighting for that cause, but she’s actually fighting for more people than she thinks. I think that’s a beautiful story, and so, yeah, I think working at Pyer Moss really helped me figure out what kind of stories I wanna tell, that’s for sure.
How do you go about finding your voice? And then working in commercial work, how do you infuse purpose and meaning into that kind of work?
That’s a good question. I mean, that’s a hard question. How do you find your voice? I think I’m always looking for it, and I think maybe that’s the key. It took me a while to figure out what I wanted. I was working really hard in a lot of different capacities, and I was able to figure out what I don’t like. And I was able to figure out what doesn’t work for me, what doesn’t feel good to me, what feels honest to me, what feels true to who I am and, as I get older, and get more experience, I start to figure it out more and more, And so, as I go, I just kinda collect the things that I gravitate to and, it ends up in my work somehow. When it comes to working with the commercial brands, it’s really hard to kind of infuse your own voice with the work that the creative has already done. But the one thing that I know I have is my own perspective, so that’s the one thing that they can’t change about me or take away from me, is my perspective. How I see the world, and what lens through which I see the world. So, if they’re like, “We wanna show a Black woman walking down the street.” My perspective of a Black woman walking down the street is a little bit more nuanced I think, than just someone walking down the street. And if it were me this is how I would feel, this is what I would do in these particular situations. When it comes to commercial work, it’s largely collaborative, and just going into it with a really open mind and just remembering who you are at the end of the day. I feel like that is the key, That’s the level I try to go into it with, you know, open-minded, but remembering who I am and my own perspective.
How are you finding work? Are you reaching out to production companies / brands/ talent management? Sending reels? Or is it a lot of just word of mouth from your network?
Definitely the network, the platforms available that you can make yourself seen on, like Free the Work. I signed up for Free the Work like two years ago, and then I became an official creator on there at the end of 2019 and that’s been really helpful for brands to find me. I don’t know, I’ve been kind of lucky in that way. I think my network has been really helpful. I try to stay in touch with as many people that I meet as I can, and then I also have a little email list and I send out my updated work to people. Maybe that’s helpful too. Most of it is people coming to me once they see me doing something else, which is this weird kind of circle of when you have to do something in order to get something but then you have to get something in order to do something, which is complex. Mentorship programs have been helpful too. I did the Apostrophe mentorship program where I was a mentee, and then now I’m doing the branded lab with Minorities and Film. And I’m a mentor there, and I’ve been networking with the people there as well. And I think mostly it’s about taking the different opportunities you have to be visible. Just kind of take them, organically and be yourself and be chill. Don’t scare anyone, but… [laughter] It’s just… I don’t know, I feel like I’ve been kind of lucky, so it’s hard for me to talk about this in a definitive way.
There’s been a lot of momentum and movement recently around amplifying the voices of people of color in the film industry and creating equity. Do you have any thoughts on what we as artists can do, if there’s something larger to sort of create a more systemic shift that can then drip down to a cultural and individual level? Are there groups and sites that can connect filmmakers with certain advocacy groups?
Yeah, there’s a lot of people doing a lot of really really great work. There’s Bid Black, there’s Diversify Photo. There’s all these different platforms that are collecting all of the creative people of color and making them visible to their larger networks, which is great because now some of these brands and magazines and production companies are starting to see there’s a larger selection than maybe they initially thought. Which is cool, and it’s been cool to be a part of some of that stuff. Even the See in Black photo event we did. We were a bunch of black photographers that got together and sold our images to raise money for different organizations. It was spearheaded by this photographer named Joshua Kissi. I feel like that kind of stuff is really, really important. Amplifying the voices of others I think is really important. That’s why I started Film Girls, ’cause I was like, “I need to see more women who look like me and just women in general who are doing this, so I’m gonna look for them and then I’m gonna share it with people.” That was kind of my initial thinking when I started that.
Tell me about Film Girl Social Club, kind of how you started it and your vision for it?
I was looking for ways to meet people in film and network with people in film. I had just started, I didn’t go to school for it. I had worked on a couple of sets with some friends. Being on set with all the guys, it felt like they were judging me for not being a guy, that’s how it felt. And so I was like, “Well maybe I would have better luck if I find other girls doing this.” So I put together an event so that I could meet other people. so I had this event at this bar. I didn’t think anyone would come but a lot of girls turned up and a lot of girls of color too, which I was like, “Okay, cool, this is really cool.” My vision for it in the future is a support hub for women making films and we can share their work. We can distribute their work, we can maybe even have our own little festivals. We can talk about the films, we can talk about our experiences. That’s my vision for it. If I want to do something, I’ll just do it. And then I figure out on the road.
Any favorite film, artists, or anything that’s inspired you recently?
I mean, my all-time favorite film is Crooklyn by Spike Lee. I’m a big fan of that movie, mainly because the main character reminds me of me, when I was a kid. Her experience was very similar to mine, and then I found out that his sister actually wrote it, that’s why I was like, “I feel like this movie has a perspective that really speaks to me,” and I felt that very young when I watched it, and so I watch it a lot just to make sure as I’m older, I still have that same feeling. And every time I watch it, I get the same feeling. I love this movie, I can relate to it. And then on top of that, there’s so many visual stylistic elements that Spike Lee just incorporated in such a natural way that I thought was really cool. But I consume a lot. Sometimes I feel like what really inspires me more is the opposite of that, not consuming.
Do you have a creative space you go to for ideation?
I feel like I am a very sensitive person, sensitive in the way that I absorb a lot of emotions and feelings and content and memories. So I need to be in a space where I’m not absorbing anything and it’s just me and my brain. And I’ve been doing these things called morning papers, I believe, because I got it from this book called The Artists Way [A Spiritual Path To Higher Creativity] and that’s been really great with helping me get my brain working without me forcing it, ’cause I’m literally just writing whatever I want. It’s not a diary. It’s not meant to document the history of what I’m doing, to tell the story of my life. It’s not meant to do any of that. It’s meant for me to get my morning ramblings out of my head and on paper. And I’ve been finding that if I write something and then I read back on it, I kind of see my inspiration in there. I’m pretty much just a very curious person, so I stumble into things, and then figure it out once I’m there, and that’s just been my entire life. [chuckle] That’s just who I am. But I think things are getting really clear for me now, and I think that’s really positive, and it’s giving me a lot to look forward to. I think right now, I’m trying to not exhaust all of my energy just from the pure excitement of just being like, “Oh, you wanna work with me? Oh, you wanna work with me? Let’s all work together.” I need to actually figure out what I have time to do and what’s most important and what’s most valuable. So that’s where I am right now in my life. That’s a good problem, I think.
How do you go about hiring your crews?
I’m really aware of making sure my crews are diverse, full of people who are understanding, who are listening and aware of themselves and aware of the world. I think that’s a very key component. I wanna make sure that the people that I’m working with feel their best, they feel the most comfortable and they feel like they can express their ideas, they feel like they can get creative and do something that they actually care about. I’m a black girl, so I’m always thinking about my presence as a black person in certain spaces, and a lot of times when I go on set and if I’m the only black person there or the only person of color, I get very aware of that fact. I think that it’s harder to express your fullest self in a space like that. So I’m very conscious of making sure that my crew is as diverse as it possibly can be, one, so that I don’t feel… [chuckle] like the only one in the room, but then also, two, so that they don’t. Because I’ve had experiences where I’ve worked with crew remembers who were experiencing somewhat of impostor syndrome on set because of the circumstances, because we were the only people of color on the entire set besides the talent, and it was really weighing on them, and I hadn’t really noticed ’cause I was directing and when I’m directing I get into the zone. But it was really affecting her, and I had to take a second and be like, “Whoa, okay, let me think about this,” because I had to stop and think about the environment I was in and think about our presence and think about how I’m behaving and how that’s contributing to how she felt. And so we had to talk about it I was saying, “It’s okay that you feel like this. It’s not normal that we’re the only people of color, that’s the not normal part, how you feel is normal, you want to feel understood, you wanna feel seen, you wanna feel heard, and you’re telling me that you don’t feel that right now and all I can say is that I’m here for you, and if you need me to stop everything in the moment and talk to you, then I can do that. I don’t mind doing that because I want you to feel good. I want you to feel like we’re doing something positive here, I know how it feels to be the person that’s like, ‘Okay, nobody can see me, nobody can hear me, nobody understands me.’ I know what that feels like.” And it’s not easy, especially as a woman, it’s a little bit harder because you have a soft voice sometimes, my voice is very soft, and sometimes if I speak in rooms where I’m the only Black woman or the only black person and the only woman, it’s really hard for me to talk, If I’m saying something, it came from a place of great bravery because I honestly, it’s hard to even tell if anyone will hear you. You don’t know if people will hear what you’re saying, which is a part of life that we all have to kind of be more considerate of, I think, even as a director or a black woman, I have to think about it all the time, and I try to encourage the people that I work with that aren’t Black or aren’t women, I try to encourage them to do the same thing, just to really think about your presence in your environment and how your presence is affecting your environment because for example, if you’re a white man, it’s different, you don’t necessarily have to think about your presence as much because most of the people around you look like you, and will probably understand you, unless you’re like hella emo and you’re just like, “Nobody understands me.” [chuckle]
Where do you see yourself in 10 years from now?
10 years. Well, by then, I hope I’ve made a feature. That’s my goal. In 10 years, I hope I wrote the script that lives in my brain, but just hasn’t fully formed yet. I’ll have some kids and they’re enjoying their lives and they’re having a great experience as a kid in this world. I wanna live in New York City forever. I wanna visit LA when I can, maybe have a house there. In 10 years, I see myself very settled into my life as a director.
Do you have any interest in going to Mars?
If it came down to it and the Earth was ending, like the Earth was gonna explode or something, and everyone’s trying to book it to Mars, I think I would just stay here only because I feel like if we got to Mars life would be way worse. I would go visit. I would go and be like, “Oh, wow”, and then come back but if I had to go forever, I’d be like, “You know what, I might as well just… I’m a part of the Earth now.” That’s what I would do.